Compare this to the first few seconds of the video above.
I can already hear the dramatic swoosh of a thousand anime fans’ noses turning in the air. More Strike Witches? Perverted garbage, they cry as one! But why? The aerial battles are good, the characters are interesting, the high concept is the ultimate geek fantasy. And really, nobody’s ever died from looking at a few animated panties. (Quite the opposite, in point of fact!)
So I’m looking forward to more. But I had a certain question in the first season, and I have a feeling it will rear its head again in the second. Given the tone of the show, I’m sure it’s an itch that will remain unscratched, and there’s really no good or gentle way of asking this, but I’m dying to know: About the Karlslanders…
Do you suppose they run concentration camps? Auschwitz and Buchenwald and all that?
I know I can't be the only person wondering.
A few months ago, I sat in on a history lesson about World War II. My pulse quickened at the chance of controversy, but alas, this was your standard middle school summary of major battles. (And the atomic bomb, of course—They had an American with them in class! How could they not?) But just think: Although it renounces war today, Japan was once part of the Axis Powers. Japanese history reports from the perspective of having been allies with Italy and Nazi Germany, not treating them as “the enemy” like we might be used to.
Now, when it comes to popular fascination with Nazi paraphernalia, things get even trickier: Nazi planes were built by BMW, Nazi uniforms designed by Hugo Boss. Coco Chanel once famously had an affair with a Nazi spy. The Reichsführer of the SS requested that his officers be dressed with an eye toward maximizing style and intimidation… And I have to hand it to Herr Himmler, that worked pretty darn well.
Mixed with the heady allure of evil, how can all of that not be fascinating?
Food for thought: Nobody ever remembers Kroenen from Hellboy for his later getup.
I admit, I like the Karlslander Witches the best out of the cast. They’re the most attractive, and I find their characters the most interesting. But my relationship with them is complicated, in a way that I suspect for Japanese fans it isn’t. I just have to assume that either the Holocaust isn’t happening in this world (Maybe Jews don’t even exist—It worked for China), or Trude, Minna, Erica and company are largely unaware.
Rather chilling to think about, though, isn’t it?
June 26, 2010 at 12:12 pm
Part of scheduling posts for later is how one gets ‘beaten to the punch’ regarding certain editorial subjects.
I am very interested in this fascination with ‘Nazi Chic’ and it’s something very present in the Gundam franchise.
It’s one of my ‘guilty pleasures.’
I will reference this post; in the end I’m glad you brought it up at all.
June 26, 2010 at 12:18 pm
Gundam, hmm. With the Newtype master race, and the neo-fascist getups? I see. Very interesting. I’m looking forward to it!
As far as guilty pleasures go, I suppose this is about as guilty as it gets. But oh, it hurts so good… Slick black leather suits and all.
June 26, 2010 at 1:57 pm
In Strike Witches world, the only bad guys are the Neuroi… and the top brass, who underestimate the power of pantsu and friendship.
I always took it for granted that every nation had united against the Neuroi, but Japan and Germany having been allies once in real life… well, yeah. The Karslander witches stand out more in the show, because there are 3 of them? As opposed to Fuso’s 2? And the other countries having just one representative each?
And we’re on the same boat here, 2DT–I like Trude the most, since how can you not love someone who dual-wields machine guns?
June 26, 2010 at 11:54 pm
I didn’t even think about the number balance. But when you put it that way… Goodness.
I like Trude the most, too.
It appears we’re at a deadly impasse.
June 26, 2010 at 4:18 pm
I had the impression that what was left of Sanya’s homeland was still ruled by a tsar (all the Red Star Sanya stuff I’ve seen is fanart), so Karlsland is probably a bit different, too.
Though much of Europe is supposedly a wasteland (we don’t know what happens to lands under Neuroi occupation).
June 26, 2010 at 11:50 pm
Hmm… Good point, actually. Since it’s called the “Orussia Empire” and not some variant of “Soviet Union,” we could assume that the Communists didn’t take over.
From what I understand, conquered lands get slowly eaten. It’s the only explanation I can think of for the total absence of China, because really– Why miss an opportunity for a cute Chun-Li knockoff character?
June 26, 2010 at 5:31 pm
I’ve never managed to sit through a single full episode of Strike Witches but…
Can’t fiction romanticize one aspect without the other?
Yeah, I’m as disgusted by what the SS did as the next person. But that’s not all I remember about them. There’s also the most stylish officer uniform of any army to date, the most organized/trained forces of its day, the most courageous on the battlefield. They’re inhumane murderers yes, but from a purely soldierly perspective, they were the best of the best.
and history has plenty of examples of romanticizing one part of something without the others. From Alexander the Great to Napoleon… those so called geniuses were nothing more than warmongering aggressors. The millions they killed didn’t stop their glorification.
June 26, 2010 at 11:37 pm
Unfortunately, when it comes to a regime responsible for the mechanized extermination of six million people, it’s difficult to separate the good that they did from the fact that they oversaw one of the worst atrocities in history. Nazi art is still in a very difficult place, conceptually.
I agree; the SS uniform is snazzy! But you can’t wear it in public without getting trouble, and it’s illegal to wear it in the Federal Republic of Germany. The whole thing is still sensitive, which is why I wrote about my ambivalence.
June 27, 2010 at 9:51 am
Is it proximity that causes Adolf Hitler to not have that glorification such figures as Alexander ‘the Great’ have? ‘We’re still living in his shadow to this very day’… Is that the primary reason?
You’d think it was because of Hitler’s morally reproachable antisemitism brought into action in such an extreme way, but Hannibal crucified his own men that failed him – Caesar cut off the right hands of all males in Gallic tribes that resisted him (and seemed proud about it, to a degree). Is it the scale of their atrocities that differentiates what we think about these leaders today? Is torturing one person not just as reproachable as torturing a thousand?
Or is it the state of globalization then that, upon the Nazi’s defeat, allowed their actions to be stamped by a predominant ‘EVIL AND ATROCIOUS’ all over the world?
Or is it a combination of these factors? Have I just answered my own question, or am I way off the mark?
So yeah, I decided to jump straight into the matter of Adolf Hitler. I felt I was being fished for it. As for Strike Witches, I think they used the name ‘Karlsland’ to subtly tell us not to think about it at all. Charlotte is working hand in hand with Sakamoto-shousa and ‘Trude, and an alien species unites us all under one banner: Vader’s Fist.
(Each time I make that reference and nobody says anything about it I die a little inside.)
June 27, 2010 at 12:51 pm
Yes, it’s partly distance. When we joke about raping and pillaging, we forget that the Vikings really did rape and pillage, and there was hardly anything funny about it. But there’s no one alive who remembers it, and records are spotty.
People do admire Hitler. By most accounts, he was an amazing speaker and a natural demagogue. It’s just tempered with the understanding that he was responsible for the Holocaust.
The Holocaust, Ningyo! Mechanized genocide, both the first of its kind and the worst in human history! Even if the last survivor dies (and we still have quite a few), we have very good records, and a veritable industry dedicated to keeping the memory alive.
… Sorry, I don’t get that reference, either. But don’t die a little on my account! I’m quite ignorant.
June 28, 2010 at 2:30 pm
Oh no, not to underplay at all the atrocities of the Holocaust – I was wondering if it could be put into perspective. Caesar’s bridges across the Rhine river that allowed him to do nothing short of slaughter entire Germanic tribes to instill fear, those were like taking war to the moon in his time. How will the Holocaust be viewed in a few hundred years’ time?
Well, I guess that’s a stupid question. I can only hope that we never see genocide like it ever again, and that there would still be civilization left to study us by then.
You know, that Darth Vader guy? The 501st Legion were his crack troopers. The unit sported the name ‘Vader’s Fist’. And y’know, the Witches’ Joint Fighter Wing is the 501st as well.
Yeah.
June 26, 2010 at 9:29 pm
Actually, here’s an interesting question brought up by your last statement. I don’t know a tremendous amount of WW2 information. I’m sure all the soldiers were aware of the Jews and other religious group’s imprisonment, but how many knew what was going on in those camps?
Well, it sounds interesting to me, anyway. ^_^;
June 26, 2010 at 11:44 pm
It was fairly well-publicized in Nazi Germany. People knew that Jews were being sent to camps, and Hitler made clear from the very beginning that he wanted to wipe them all out. At the very least, people could see the disappearances, and they knew those people wouldn’t be coming back. But the gas chambers were secret; only the people who ran the camps knew about the “Final Solution.”
It IS an interesting subject. Just difficult.
June 27, 2010 at 11:44 am
That’s probably not the right question. It’s not so much a matter of what the Germans / could have known but of whether they chose to think about it. It’s just so much easier to think “They get what they deserve.” than to ask yourself than to ask yourself what it is that they get/deserve afterwards – All the more when you are a soldier and you are busy with more pressing matters like making sure you life to see the next day. And those who could help but think anyway (like my grandfather, a later university professor of philosophy) usually defected and became POW on first occasion (of course provided they weren’t fighting on the east front since it was well known that soviet POW were treated even worse than Gestapo prisoners).
Those who have read George Orwell’s “1984″ may be familiar with the concept of “Doublethink”, it’s complicated but it means something like thinking that a fact is correct despite knowing that it is wrong (like thinking that your country has been at war with country A and allied with country B for centuries, despite clearly remembering that you were at war with country B and allied with A just a few years ago).
I think the mindset of Nazi Germany was somewhat similiar:
During the war the local “correction camp” (basically a small concetration camp meant for political prisoner’s like communists and people opposing Hitler’s rule rather than jews) was located in the centre of the state capital right next to a popular recreation area – there are a couple of photographs that show families with small children laughing and chatting happily in front of the 2m concrete and barbed wire walls of the camp. Adjanced to both the park and and the prison was a residential area which is interesting as the local residents handed in a petition to their gauleiter complaining about how the cries of the prisoners when they were led around the prison yard in the evening kept them from sleeping. As a result the prisoners were gaged before going out and noone ever complained again.
Now of course you could claim that this was just because the Germans were an extremely cruel people who enjoyed seeing their enemies suffer but I find that somewhat hard to believe. It appears to me more like they trickd themself simply by not thinking about it: They heard that people in the camp were crying but they didn’t stop to think about *why* they were crying, they likely didn’t even make the small step from”crying” to “suffering”.
At the very least that sounds much more feasible to me than that they didn’t know what was happing right in front of them.
June 27, 2010 at 12:53 pm
Glorious. I love it when I can get you talking.
Thanks for the history lesson.
June 28, 2010 at 12:56 am
Wow, that thoroughly answered my question. Thank you!
June 27, 2010 at 6:02 pm
Wasn’t it the Schindler of Schindler’s list who decided to act when he saw soldiers gunning down Jews in the street? The sight caused him to realize that Germany had stepped over some line, and that he couldn’t ignore what was happening any more? Or was that someone else?
June 28, 2010 at 11:00 am
Yep, that was him.
June 27, 2010 at 12:50 am
“The aerial battles are good, the characters are interesting, the high concept is the ultimate geek fantasy.”
What really hurts most about Strike Witches is the fact that no one has done a decent air-to-air anime featuring actual planes in ages. I’ve personally got nothing against mecha musume but the fact that Strike Witches is the best example really points to a dearth of straight fighter pilot anime more than anything else.
Between mecha, magical girl shows, and mecha musume, there’s just no room for an anime Top Gun, which saddens me. (although I must admit, Macross Plus is close).
But boy, that map… that’s one way to avoid a whole lot of inconvenient questions, but that huge absence is just so very glaring. I guess China’s part of the Indian ocean? Maybe they had an Atlantis incident sometime in the past.
I’m not very sure if i can quite make it out at that resolution – but it looks like Israel is missing in the same way, which leads me to conclude they’re doing the same thing with the Jews. Which maybe speaks to Japanese ignorance concerning the distribution of Jews in Europe, but eh, I suppose it’s an attempt…
June 27, 2010 at 12:58 pm
A dearth, yes, perhaps. But I also think it speaks to an incredible attention to detail, even in the midst of a pretty illogical otaku fantasy.
I’ve always thought of Gundam Wing as the anime Top Gun. Granted, I’ve never actually seen Gundam Wing, I could swear I’ve seen beach volleyball art of the male cast.
Hmm… You’re right. It’s blurry, but Israel seems to be gone, too. Then again, America/Liberion doesn’t look a thing like ours, either. And absolutely no concern for tectonic plates!
June 27, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Decent air-to-air anime? What about [i]Sky Crawlers[/i]?
June 27, 2010 at 9:58 pm
Sky Crawlers is a great example, but it’s a drop in the bucket.
Unfortunately I don’t recall any beach volleyball in Wing. I’ll grant it has the same prevalence vaguely homoerotic dialogue and tropes, but Top Gun is also fondly remembered for fantastic dogfights, whereas on the mechanical side Gundam Wing is more remembered for having mooks armoured in dynamite (poor Leos… even just screaming “It’s a Gundam!” is enough to set them alight)
December 7, 2011 at 12:25 am
I know it’s absurdly late for a comment, but… Last Exile?
June 27, 2010 at 2:44 am
Ha…I’ve asked similar questions about Nazi uniforms just in general, day to day artwork that I see on Pixiv. It’s interesting how much more prevalent it is with Japanese artists than, say, Korean or Chinese, just on Pixiv.
It’s not a huge group to poll though.
I don’t think I know enough to make a judgement, but I’ve always wondered if artists were just overlooking the actions of the Nazis in favor of their style or if they have another purpose for it.
Even just artists who copy Nazi style in their work but don’t actually use Nazi symbolism are common. For instance, Noguchi (http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=83182), who happens to do both. “Executioner.SS” “The most dreaded Nazi of them all!” “Burn everything up!”
What’s his point?
(Also, again, a comment that’s not entirely relevant. Sorry!)
June 27, 2010 at 1:03 pm
On the contrary, I think it’s quite relevant! We are talking about Japanese representations of their historical allies (… of absolute evil), after all.
It’s interesting you should bring up rates of Nazi art relative to Korean and Chinese artists, though. I discovered the existence of “Nazi chic” from a news article I read some years ago about a Hitler cafe in a Korean city.
June 27, 2010 at 2:23 pm
Ha, that is interesting. Perhaps Pixiv just isn’t a very good representation.
June 27, 2010 at 2:57 pm
It’s a thought that’s glanced my mind, but nothing that’s made it stick. Probably because the focus is on working together for the greater (?) good more than individual problems. If you’ve watched the OVA, there’s a good bit of positive propaganda for the Witches, so the whole series might be same way.
June 28, 2010 at 11:02 am
Oh, no doubt. It’s a valiant, united humanity against alien scum, pretty straightforward. But the cynical imp in my brain just can’t take these things at face value.
June 27, 2010 at 5:26 pm
It’s odd because the Strike Witches series does indeed try to mirror as many historic events as possible, such as with the story of Erica and the missing pants. Still,in context of the Strike Witches story, Karlsland has been nearing destruction for a good part of the war. This leads me to believe their infrastructure would too weak to carry out a Holocaust. They also had to enlist the help of witches from all over the world, something which would be slightly contradictory to the ideals of a nation seeking to destroy these “inferior” peoples.
I’m ecstatic for the next season of Strike Witches, as it *unshamefully* is one of my favorite series ever. If you like the Karlsland witches in the anime series though, you really should read any of the works from the Witch of Africa series. The Afrika Korps will make you fall in love with Karlsland all over again.
June 28, 2010 at 11:04 am
Well, those Karlsland Witches aren’t Trude, Minna and Erica… But okay, I’ll give Witch of Africa a shot.
Thanks for the recommendation!
I’m still waiting with bated breath for the moment when the war with the Neuroi is nearing its end. And then Karlsland goes on the offensive and we get WWII all over again. With plane girls.
June 27, 2010 at 5:31 pm
It seems that many societies have a love for “Nazi Chic” and its connected ideas. Saw this on bbc like 2 weeks ago: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8660064.stm
My favorite part :
Prayag Thakkar, a 19-year-old student in Gujarat state, is one of them: “I have idolised Hitler ever since I have had a sense of history. I admire his leadership qualities and his discipline.”
The Holocaust was bad, he says, but that is not his concern. “He mesmerised the whole nation with his leadership and iron discipline. India needs his discipline.”
—-
Being British, I also remember a time not too long ago Prince Harry got a lot of flack for wearing a Nazi Uniform + Swastika to a fancy dress party as seen here : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4170083.stm
Personally I think a uniform’s a uniform, its the acts of the person that matters. People are, and should be allowed to be fascinated with the Nazi’s as long as they don’t behave as they do. When watching Death Note I was 100% on Light’s side even though he was a mass mudering sycopath. When watching Elfen Lied I am in glee when people are blown up and their blood splatters across the screen. IRL however I am a docile, law abiding (somewhat) person, who couldn’t kill someone. Same with many of the people who wear these things. They don’t feel connected to the atrocities, and while that is a necessary thing, it can be a problem if we don’t see signs of history repeating.
June 28, 2010 at 11:08 am
I remember the incident with Prince Harry. But that one about young Indians is quite interesting! Rather ironic, too, considering all that Aryan nonsense.
The tricky thing, speaking of “history repeating,” is that there is a very vocal population of extremist right-wing otaku. It gets the old gears turning in my brain, you know what I mean?
June 27, 2010 at 7:38 pm
I think part of the issues is the almost meticulous records the Nazis kept, which document the horrors too well. Other major disasters (i.e. Great Leap Forward leading to the Great Famine in China) just don’t have that same level of detail, so the numbers are taken as estimates.
I saw a History Channel documentary that did cover what the Nazi’s did well, including promoting health (banning smoking) and technology (Autobahn). Unfortunately the bad overshadows the good, especially since the regime started a World War.
The more intriguing factor I learned from a class was how Nazi officers and members claimed they had no choice but to join and commit atrocities. Not doing so would mean being cast from society or even death. Therefore, what could they do? The allies did not accept this excuse, but its intriguing. Tbe fictional novel The Kindly Ones supposedly does an entertaining job portraying the Third Reich’s actions from an officer’s point of view, but it’s not really an accessible from the excerpt I covered.
Well this has become a long ramble, but in the end Strike Witches is entertainment, and I’m sure the creators removed a lot of the controversial stuff to meet that end. However, if the entire topic (German WWII history) is controversial, I guess one can only minimize the problems, which is controversial in itself.
June 28, 2010 at 11:13 am
I don’t mind a ramble or two.
I’m reminded of an anecdote I saw once about hurricane forums, where posters gush about the powerful statistics of new storms, then add at the end that of course it’ll be a terrible tragedy if anyone dies. The creators behind the Strike Witches concept seem to me like WWII history buffs, who love this stuff very much but are faced with two very big problems: China and the Jews. And you’re right; I guess they did what they could.
June 28, 2010 at 9:16 am
In anticipation for the second season, I bought an artbook from Shimada Fumikane, who designed the Strike Witches girls. Most of the artbooks featured girls from the series, but there were some mecha musume whom I did not recognize. They wore clothes very evocative of the Axis forces.
Because of the WWII flavor and the series about war, I also can’t not think about potential war crimes, even in a series as light and fun as this. However, I do hope the series do not tackle concentration camps and genocides.
June 28, 2010 at 11:16 am
I would bet money that they wouldn’t. The closest they might come is having the characters realizing that the Neuroi aren’t all that bad, but then proceeding with their plans because war doesn’t end until somebody’s made to kneel. But even that’s not a given. We are dealing with a very optimistic show, in the end.
June 28, 2010 at 2:15 pm
That’s quite hilarious, because that’s exactly what I did! A lot of the art in there was prototypes for what was to become Strike Witches and Sky Girls, so you’ll definitely notice similarities. He also mocked-up some things in there that would later become Busou Shinki figures. That art book is just so amazing.
June 29, 2010 at 4:11 am
I still say they should put some damn pants on, but hey, Strike Witches is awesome in my book (except for episode 7, which is, in my opinion, the stupidest episode of anything ever). As for Nazi’s and shit….I’ll admit, they’re uniforms looked pretty fucking cool, too bad they ruined their styles by all becoming the biggest dickheads in History. They put down everything from Jewish people to art. I’m getting angry now, and I just watched The Incredible Hulk (the good one with Edward Norton), so I shouldn’t get angry, lest I turn green and huge and start rampaging, like what I’m doing to this comment, which has now gone off in so many different tangents that I don’t even know what I’m talking about anymore.
June 29, 2010 at 11:00 am
I never actually watched that version. I was rather put off by the Ang Lee/Eric Bana film.
Episode 7 was… Well, you couldn’t watch that with friends or family and say, “See? This is why I watch anime.” But I liked it okay.
June 29, 2010 at 6:04 am
The Japanese obsession with Nazi affectations is just a result of the fact that their cultural upbringing doesn’t introduce a lot of chances to talk about the European side of World War II.
I read something (I forget where now exactly) that attempts to trace back the Nazi imagery to the fact that Japan’s own cultural narrative of WWII is different than the constructs of other countries. To the Japanese, the narrative of WWII is the invasion of China, a misguided naval-centric war with an industrial superpower, and the bomb. The fact that they were part of the Axis Powers is an afterthought.
So writers of shows like UC Gundam who looked to history for inspiration and similarity to the stories they wrote (the notion of a superior race, scenes that evoke the Nuremburg Rally), and then copy its imagery to evoke it, probably didn’t think so much about the implications of their imagery so much as the thematic elements of it. Indeed, the fact that the Nazi regime was conducting atrocities while there were guys like Rommel and other soldiers who either didn’t know or disapproved of the regime’s actions, and just fought for the safety of their country, romanticizes them even more and makes them perfect fodder for character inspirations.
So the root of these things, I suspect, is just something as innocent as a lack of knowledge on that portion of history. Not a good excuse, but better than me thinking that Japanese anime writers are a bunch of hawkish right-wing ultranationalists that idolize the NSDAP.
June 29, 2010 at 11:03 am
Very interesting, and it rings true.
I think the people involved DO know the messy parts of the history, which is why we have a complete absence of China, and apparently Israel too. But it’s probably as simple as wanting to admire the heroes of the lot.
Welcome! Thanks for leaving a comment.
June 29, 2010 at 12:12 pm
“Though they had but little strength, they used it. Though they had but a small door open, they entered in by it. Though they had but one talent, they laid it out heartily for God, and did not bury it. Though they had but a little light, they lived fully up to it. If they could not do what they would, they did what they could, and were blessed in their deeds.” – J C Ryle, on the English Reformers.
On the issue of the average German not resisting the Nazis, please be reminded that Germany was, first and foremost, a Christian country. The funny thing about this is Christians ARE supposed to be the ones standing up against such atrocities, but by and large, most of them accepted German without so much as a whimper, save for the insane acts of Dietrich Boenhoffer, Schindler, the White Rose Movement, and a few others immortalized in history. Most Germans thought Hitler was the answer to the humiliation of the Versailes Treaty (pushed upon them by the conquering Allied Forces, FRANCE especially)and the failures of the German economy. Hitler knew how to say the right things to justify his insanity, and the Germans at that time lapped it up hook, line and sinker. There’s a whole load of stuff I could talk on the topic, but I’m digressing.
But the point is this: They KNEW, but they chose to NOT ACT. Save for the examples I mentioned above, your average German during WW2 thought all these were supposed to BETTER THE FATHERLAND.
The same argument can be applied to the Japanese, with much more extreme results. Japanese colonists flinging themselves off cliffs, forcing children to play with grenades, BASHING BABIES TO DEATH… and to top it off, every Japanese citizen was brainwashed to such an extent that they would take up arms and proceed to be turned into so much dead meat that if America invaded Tokyo, they’d make the Holocaust look TAME in comparison. Not to mention the casualties they might take if such an invasion took place.
And as for the Japanese not knowing about the Nazis and their atrocities, well, partly due to Japan’s lack of interest in following Hitler (considering that they invaded Russia and came back defeated) and the Pax Americana pretty much forbidding them to learn anything about WW2 history, especially from the Japanese point of view. There are a lot of information, verified by eyewitness accounts, about the atrocities Japan did during WW2. But the Americans, fearful that IF Japan had access to this information, they’d try to rebel and kick America out of Japan, which led to the history textbook issues in Japan of the late 20th century, not to mention stuff like Yasakuni, Unit 731, and The Rape Of Nanking being not just domestic issues, but highly-charged political and diplomatic issues as well.
Fortunately, most Japanese are not in favour of trying to start a war (save for the ultra-nationalists, of which Hideaki Anno is one of them) largely due to not wanting to get nuked. Getting nuked does that to you. And while most otaku are some of the most patriotic people in Japan (which is strange), I hardly doubt that they would actually want war. And I don’t think most of them actually read the newspapers or the BBC.
June 30, 2010 at 8:52 am
The American suppression angle is one I’ve heard of, but never so plainly. Reminds me of the reason why the emperor was allowed to stay on the throne, when he should have been thrown into court and possibly hanged with the rest of them. In the end, we could blame the strange state of Japanese historiography on Gen. MacArthur.
Enlightening, very engrossing stuff. Thanks for the comment.
June 29, 2010 at 12:13 pm
Also, needs more Joint Fighter Wing Africa. Hannah-Justina Marseille is HOT.
June 30, 2010 at 8:04 pm
It’s kind-of late, but the Japanese ambassador to Lithuania saved the lives of thousands of Jews by issuing them visas (which he and his wife wrote out by hand!): http://www.eagleman.com/sugihara/
Most of the visa-holders ended up in Kobe until the end of the war.
Sugihara did this against the orders of his superiors, and was dismissed from the Foreign Ministry at the end of the war. After his death, the Foreign Ministry exonerated and memorialized him.
July 2, 2010 at 8:29 am
I read about Sugihara before. Very interesting story.
I’d also heard that the Japanese were interested in Jews, not for particularly humanitarian reasons, but because they figured those legendary money-grubbing powers that the Germans were going on about ought to be used for good.
But I can’t find any sources now, so take that with a grain of salt.
July 2, 2010 at 6:10 am
Sorry, know this is late, but just finished watching Strike Witches today…
Firstly, thank you for putting this point out there (thought I was the only one who was feeling this), I totally agree with what your saying. When I saw the ‘Karlslanders’ there was that small twinge in the back of my mind (Erica’s SS uniform in particular brought this up). However, it was simply ignored so as to not get in the way of the show, which I’m sure most people did too, and is what was intended when it was made.
That said, they did put a little effort into getting rid of the issue. As has been mentioned, it is just assumed that the Neuroi are the real enemy (cough) and everyone else has banded together. But what got me was the use of the “loop hole” of Karlsland being destroyed/taken-over with everyone moving the Britain, which if one was looking at the anime with a real WW2 perspective, makes it harder the believe that the holocaust is happening in their world.
July 2, 2010 at 8:31 am
Karlsland was taken over by the Neuroi? I either missed that or forgot about it. Good point!
Thanks for the comment. I don’t mind late ones at all, so feel free to chime in at your leisure.
July 4, 2010 at 4:17 pm
you have to remember that the series is set in an alternate earth, where the rules of what we know of WWII didn’t happen who’s to say that the nazi party or whatever the karlsalder govt is in the series timeline there’s just no way of knowing , besides i’ve been doing a long form strike witches RP campaign since the winter and we’ve only touched base about what happened in wwII once and it was pretty depressing, but aide from that my favorites of the karlslander girls are gertrude, and minna
July 5, 2010 at 8:12 am
Long time no see.
It’s pretty clear that the Nazi party is in power, or at least some equivalent, because of the scenes in which we see the higher-ups. But you’re right that that doesn’t make everything else a given.
July 29, 2010 at 1:27 pm
According to the strike witch novels, the neuroi invaded earth before 1917, way before the creation of the Nazi party.
In other words, we had WWI, and the witches had the first neuroi war. It’s difficult to imagine the Nazi government or party existing in Germany without WWI, the post-WWI recession and other , let alone Karlsland.
If the Nazis exists in the strike witch universe, there would not be a united front against neuroi.
They simply would not allow it; co-operating with the non-Aryan against one common enemy would be against their ideology.
August 2, 2010 at 12:01 am
[...] Nazi Chic in other anime: Strike Witches (2DT 06/26/2010) [...]
August 14, 2010 at 6:59 am
The history of Strike Witches explains that the major religions that we know today never took hold in their world because the Neuroi appeared throughout history and wiped them out.
This had the consequence of entire landmasses disappearing from the map (Palestinian region, mainland China, North American west coast), alongside women being more equal in society across the board.
August 24, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Oops, sorry for not getting to this!
This is very interesting, a very bold thesis… A little troubling, too, but at least there’s some reasoning behind it. Thanks for pointing it out!
August 21, 2010 at 11:07 am
[...] know I’ve said this before, but I love Strike Witches. Love love love, with zero reservations (well, okay, maybe one). Yes, it’s mildly exploitative and an embarrassing example of otaku perversion. Sure. I [...]
August 25, 2010 at 2:34 am
“Nazi planes were built by BMW, Nazi uniforms designed by Hugo Boss. Coco Chanel once famously had an affair with a Nazi spy.”
Siemens supplied for the German War effort, and Americans don’t throw out our fine kitchen appliances today. BASF had a little operation going in the IG Farben (you know, of Zyklon-B fame). Planes/parts were also manufactured by Daimler and Mercedes. Allianz, the largest german insurance agency, shafted jewish claims in those times… Ok, that may not be an example as sexy as sleek planes or snazzy dresses, but you get the point.
The Karlsbaders may just as well be what Hetalia is doing; style without the substance. Sure, the issue may get “controversial” for some – who’re either unable to see context or -want- to create controversy. Does Karlsbad’s aesthetic cleary reference the nazi time style ? Of course. Does that reference help or further the story, or distract from it ? You can argue about it. Does it trivialize the Nazis or their deeds ? Not unless you believe in style over substance. What WOULD trivialize the Nazis is if there were moe-girls spouting actual nazi-opinions or doing actual nazi-stuff (and there, it doesn’t matter what type of uniform they’re wearing). But then again, hey we had in Germany debates about Hitlers portrayal in “The Downfall” (watchit!) because the realism could make him actually sympathetic to the audience (it’s a sad day when the politicians have even less faith in my populace than I have).
On the subject of having an aesthetic appreciation of Nazi paraphernalia. I can understand. Hey, I’ve spend many-an-hour in my youth assembling some of our airplane models. Didn’t make me a goose-steppin’ jew-hater (I’m more of a salsa -kind of guy). But it’s all a matter of reason and intent. If, for example, someone would present me their prized collection of Zyklon-B containers (Pulp Fiction style), I might back off a little and look for the nearest exit.
Anyways, the comments regarding history here are for once rather good and I don’t have much to argue/add (I’m a german, and study history in uni).
Concerning Strike Witches itself, for some reason I watched the first season and got into it, mostly because of the friendship-stuff (the actual story was yet rather paper-thin, and I didn’t care much fore the style – except that yah sorry the panties got annoying sometimes).
–
Anyhoots, getting some quick replies done:
“Is it proximity that causes Adolf Hitler to not have that glorification such figures as Alexander ‘the Great’ have? ‘We’re still living in his shadow to this very day’… Is that the primary reason? ”
I’d say it’s mostly a case of “history is written by the victors”. We are, for example, cultural descendants of Alexander, so his exploits were handed down to us in a favorable light. Caesar isn’t first and foremost remembered (and repudiated) for his atrocities in Gaul for the same reason. Time has something to do with it, of course. While twothousand years distance might not make Hitler into a Jesus (what an idea), it makes the conflicts much more abstract than the living memories/consequences they still evoke. Also remember that the consciousness for actually -recognizing- such things (as atrocities) does also evolve with the times. The sensibility of things like cruelty, racism, massmurder, etc. wasn’t so developed in earlier ages, and it’s quite difficult to tack it on retroactively (that is, on an emotional level you get a different reaction to Ceasar killing thousand people there vs. Hitler killing thousand people here, even though it’s the same thing).
“Now of course you could claim that this was just because the Germans were an extremely cruel people who enjoyed seeing their enemies suffer but I find that somewhat hard to believe. It appears to me more like they trickd themself simply by not thinking about it: They heard that people in the camp were crying but they didn’t stop to think about *why* they were crying, they likely didn’t even make the small step from”crying” to “suffering”.”
I don’t know if one could call it “not thinking about it”, but the actual ideology of racism that was in play made them divorce their empathy from jews etc. as actual human beings. The cruelty was not of a cartoonish moustache-twirling variety, no, in its most evolved form you could liken it to the feeling you get when you exterminate pests (it’s no coincidence that nazi propaganda often dehumanized the jews as vermin etc.). Factor in psychological elements of the Stanford- and Milgram stuff. If you want to understand it (and I know the analogy may be controversial, however it’s psychologically the same), think about people who eat meat and don’t give a fuck about factory farm animals. Hell, they may even have a pet, and love it, and cry when it dies, and they may get squeamish when they see images of factory-farming, but they still loves’ me their cheap burgers. This is even more powerful when you add an ideology that lets them suffer for a “good cause”.
“It’s odd because the Strike Witches series does indeed try to mirror as many historic events as possible, such as with the story of Erica and the missing pants. Still,in context of the Strike Witches story, Karlsland has been nearing destruction for a good part of the war.”
well, if you want to interpret ‘mirroring events of the actual war’, remember that Germany WAS laid to ruins, thanks to bombardment at the end no major city was left standing, and we were occupied afterwards. You could read the Neuroi into that, yah..
“The American suppression angle is one I’ve heard of, but never so plainly. Reminds me of the reason why the emperor was allowed to stay on the throne, when he should have been thrown into court and possibly hanged with the rest of them. In the end, we could blame the strange state of Japanese historiography on Gen. MacArthur.”
America after the war was more interested in having a compliant client-state than bringing much of any real “justice” to the lands. Realpolitik, if you will. It was the same in Germany, some of the leadership went on trial, a few years there was a half-assed effort of de-nazi-ficying the populace, but that stopped as soon as they needed to enlist those countries in the fight against the new enemy communism. (meanwhile the population was not so much educated as instead bought off by cola and hollywood). It’s all about interest, not so much about moral principles (hell, most of the time those moral principles end up perverted as propaganda behind which the actual interests lie).
August 31, 2010 at 10:16 am
Oops, sorry– I was so impressed with this comment, and I never got around to actually replying, shame on me.
As an American living in Japan, I’m beginning to appreciate just how the US won over the hearts and minds of the western world through its products. But it’s almost like it’s been used as a substitute for real postwar healing. Know what I mean.
Sorry, I’d love to practice a little German on you, but it’s been two years and it’s getting mixed up with my Japanese. I’ll spare you.
But thanks for reading!
September 12, 2010 at 4:06 am
[...] Chic eventually degenerated into a long winded rant that just didn’t feel right as a comment. 2DT brings up an interesting point about the fascination with the sharply dressed dudes of the Third [...]
May 8, 2011 at 5:31 pm
I always enjoy seeing germans being portrayed as good guys or at least as just cool.I myself love German culture and it’s language and have absolutely no problem with the whole thing as long as it isn’t used as biased left wing propaganda.
Man kann niemals genug haben!
May 8, 2011 at 9:50 pm
does that mean a THIRD strike witches series as well? or are they just doiing the wrap up movie for now?