This entry is about pornography. I understand if that isn’t your thing, but if you could, I’d like you to read on. Don’t worry, the only explicit content here is language.
Like so:
“Respect the cock… and tame the cunt!”
- Tom Cruise, Magnolia
Men watch porn. Let’s get that out of the way. The ones who say they don’t are perpetuating a polite fiction. And men of “our kind,” I can assure you, watch porn in great abundance.
Yet, with our varied perversions, our bondage and lolicon and whatever else gets us going, few genres are as divisive as netorare, or NTR. I’m talking about stories where a boy meets a girl, but for one reason or another they haven’t taken the next step. And then the girl meets another boy and gives up all her sexual orifices to him, completely humiliating both herself and the original boy, and usually ensuring that their relationship will be tainted forever after.
Disgusted? Well, let’s leave that to taste. But it’s pretty interesting stuff.
NTR has a different flavor from what we might call a “cheating story” or “cuckolding” in the west. The surface features are similar—girl is unfaithful and gives in to lust—but beneath that, NTR is a lot more about physiological transformation: The cheating wife may love her husband, but after a good dicking she becomes a slave to carnal impulses. The formerly chaste girlfriend has been broken in, and now her body is irrevocably imprinted by another man’s penis like a plaster mold. Even if the affair ends, there’s no going back for a woman’s flesh.
At the turn of the century, when sexology and the social sciences were just beginning to arrive in Japan, it was widely believed that the only women capable of independent sexual desire were widows and prostitutes. Japan’s come a little way since then, but there’s a clear modern thought tradition of women being “activated” and sexually ripened by the desires of men. When we think about it, why else would otaku go so crazy about the possibility of their favorite characters not being virgins?

Netorare also features an unusually high number of instances of “ahegao,” faces of drooling, eye-rolling pleasure.
For otaku, especially, NTR gets its power from some deeply rooted fears. As the clock ticks and singlehood still looms large, many might wonder if there’s something fundamentally wrong with them. Everybody else seems to have some essential insight into physical intimacy that they’re missing. It’s a tiny leap of logic to assume that sex is the answer, and just a touch of perverse paranoia (or is that paranoid perversion?) to assume that once a woman knows the taste, she’s a beast. After all, that’s how it is for men, isn’t it?
Some people call this the virgin-whore dichotomy. Greg Stolze calls this phenomenon the WECHBY: The Woman Everyone Can Have But You. Somehow, I feel that name just says it all.
Further Reading
mt-i has some case examples on the appeal of netorare.



July 15, 2010 at 8:43 am
Augh, NTR. One of the few genres of ero for which building a familiarity with (and developing a taste for) it hasn’t stopped it from really creeping me out or making me squirm. I mean, I suppose that’s the appeal, to the point that if it stopped making you angry it wouldn’t be as enticing.
It definitely is interesting how peculiar of the otaku subculture NTR is. You could probably draw a parallel to the western “cuckolding” fetish, but the two definitely prey on different kinds of emotions.
July 15, 2010 at 11:46 am
There’s definitely that same pool of humiliation between cuckolding and NTR, though, drawing masochistic pleasure from being unsatisfying and unworthy. But they’re different beasts, and I suspect it’s because cuckolding has a long, long tradition and is very closely tied to marriage. NTR is almost its postmodern response.
I have a slight sinking feeling that you might be the only one who comments on this post.
Thanks for reading; I always appreciate your insight.
May 14, 2011 at 1:00 am
2DT,
Great post. It is interesting that you thought that you would only receive one post (first one from Jaren L) on this topic. It really is on many, many peoples mind.
July 15, 2010 at 12:28 pm
I find it interesting that this girl you’re using in your example page #2, the one who has given in to this unfaithful lust, is the one guilt-tripping her old love.
Not really related to your topic. But I’m commenting more out of pity than because I have much to add!
July 15, 2010 at 12:46 pm
I would say something haughty like “I don’t need your charity,” but no, actually, I’m kinda glad you decided to take pity on me!
These sorts of posts get hits, but when it comes to discussion and open engagement, I’m just as likely to get dead silence. Which I understand. Anyway, thank you darling.
By the way, there’s a twist to that picture: She’s talking to a mirror, unaware that the person she’s addressing is behind it and can see everything. Oh, the pain…
July 15, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Huh. Interesting you say that, because this is the first post of yours I’ve had anything to say about in quite a while.
July 16, 2010 at 11:41 pm
Digitalboy: Oh, I know! I was starting to worry.
I’ve been trying to experiment a little more since my quiet return.
November 18, 2011 at 10:09 am
isn’t that Nagare Ippon work? the seccond picture
July 15, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Nonsense man, we’re all dying to talk about it >.>
So we’ve all reflective insight as to our sexual failures, but don’t act to change ourselves? Is procrastination derived from knowledge and intellect? Is not procrastination in no small part due to the confidence one has to be able to do what they’re not doing if they really had to? There’s also the lament that no one in the ‘real world’ will ever match the picture-perfectness of a moe-type filled character. Then, is this cockiness or cowardice?
Maybe we just fear conviction. Anyhow, it seems I’m still idealistic enough to absolutely detest NTR. I take no pleasure in the prospect of the (primary) fictional character of my sexual desires not being a virgin. But when I think about it, I’m also perfectly fine with temporarily turning my fantasies to other characters, of which I don’t care about when it comes to sexual ‘purity’. In those situations I’m totally content with assuming a submissive role. I also happen to think ahegao is the greatest thing to happen since lolicon or the sandwich.
So then I guess the former, ‘pure love’ I desire is some subversion of a life my socialized human values really want to lead somewhere deep down. There’s the procrastinator speaking again. Either way, once an element of treachery is introduced my core values violently reject it. I’d like to call myself a purist about what I can.
But really, I thought the stereotype was that men were the ones who could never backtrack when it came to sexual ‘programming’?
July 15, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Why’d that turn out so long? A freak at a shrink am I.
July 15, 2010 at 1:10 pm
You’re lovely. Don’t ever change.
July 15, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Classic projection, is what that is. Western (including Meiji/Taisho Japanese) men at the turn of the century thought of themselves as rational caretakers of wild feminine beasts, when the reality was often just the opposite.
Ahegao is… interesting. If you look at it in a very, very skewed way, it can even be sweet. We want proof positive that the girl’s enjoying the experience, and there it is! Hooray!
But it’s definitely a case of manga’s visual language completely overshadowing physical reality.
Thanks for reading.
July 15, 2010 at 1:28 pm
My experience with Japanese porn is rather limited (American porn much less so), so I didn’t know that such a sub-genre actually existed. My life was defined by a relationship like this for longer than I’d care to admit to.* The first girl I was ever stay-awake-at-night-longing-for trembling-at-her-nearness-as-she-browsed-my-bookshelf in love with, started going out with another guy in my junior year of high school. She’d transferred in halfway through our freshman year and I’d been taken with her ever since she sat behind me in Spanish class. We quickly became friends, and then best friends, but since she had a long-distance relationship with a guy at her old school she always seemed out of my reach. At some point she broke off the long-distance thing, but I never had the courage to confess my feelings to her even when presented with opportunities. Still, I asked her to a dance (turned down due to prior obligations) and I found out later that she knew how I felt all along.
The guy she started dating junior year turned out to be her first sexual experience, and when I heard about it later through mutual “friends” I was still pretty devastated. I wasn’t naive about the whole thing, that’s what repressed teenagers in a small town do, but I couldn’t get over the fact that I had totally blown my chance to let her know how I felt. Fast forward to the end of senior year and the end of a bad relationship of my own, we had an awkward night on the eve of my departure for college. Later she wrote to me that she’d always wondered what it would be like to kiss me, and if x and y hadn’t happened that night she would have found out, even though she was still dating the other guy. Thus began the next phase in our odd relationship, and over the next four years, with a lot of letters back and forth, we began to be intimate with one another, in word and in deed (it all ended when she decided to marry the other guy, but that’s another story).
All that to say that there is something to the imprinting idea put forth in netorare. Even if it isn’t exactly a physical shaping, or a sudden release of a previously trapped raging libido, there are changes that take place when you’re with someone. The way a person kisses, for instance, is somewhat tailored to their partner. When she told me that her boyfriend had noticed that she kissed him differently (“not bad, just different”) after being with me, I had the slight satisfaction of revenge, tied with extreme anguish over the fact that another man was having sex with the woman I loved. While I wouldn’t wish this kind of unhealthy relationship, or its accompanying feelings, on anyone, I couldn’t help but be a bit dumbstruck when I read your post this morning. I’ve been there. I’ve done that. And though I’m not proud of it, the scars are still there, fresher than I thought they were. It was a bit painful, and a bit cathartic… kind of like this TL;DR reply.
So, thanks for having the courage once again to post something that might cause people have people looking at you askance (in the online sense). Knowing that experiences similar to mine are fodder for porn is both disheartening and comforting at the same time. Even if those experiences are exaggerated and mostly imagined, at the end of the day my feelings back then don’t seem quite so unnatural to me. Thanks for that.
*I am fully aware of the irony of this statement in not posting with my usual screen name, but….
July 16, 2010 at 11:39 pm
I feel this statement points to the fear and ignorance of the otaku condition. I don’t mean fear and ignorance on your part– obviously you’ve learned from life– but when you say something like this, I think someone who’s never kissed doesn’t actually know what you’re talking about. The necessary physical, bodily knowledge is missing. Which leads me to wonder how often haters/lovers of NTR have had girlfriends and sexual experiences.
Thanks for reading. Anonymous or not, I think it was very brave to tell this story.
July 15, 2010 at 2:27 pm
I’ve long wondered why NTR exists when I can’t think of anyone who likes it. In fact, most people consider it the worst possible kind of thing. The most epic despair I’ve seen on 4chan was Cat Head Imako.
If you haven’t heard of it, Cat Head Imako is a really, really good eromanga about a cute loli-ish girl who falls in love with this guy and bangs him, and it’s all cute. /a/ found out about it sometime last year and thought it was just a 1-shot that we all loved.
Well, a couple of months ago, it turned out that Imako was an ongoing series. Someone updated with the 2nd-5th chapters. Now, chaps 2 and 3 still have Imako with her original boyfriend, but in the course of the chapters, Imako apparently gets involved with some new drug going around the school.
In chapter 4, she sees this guy to get the drugs, and he wants her to fuck him, so she does for the whole chapter. Then, in chapter five, we see how she tries to spend time with her boyfriend at a festival, but ultimately gets taken aside by the dealer guy and meets his friend with another girl, and they trade girls, so now Imako has been banged by yet another dude.
When /a/ found out about this, hell broke loose. For literally three whole days, there were constant threads of people crying over this. And this wasn’t one of those things where some didn’t like it and some did – EVERYONE was against it. I did not see one person in 3 days who wasn’t sickened to their stomach by the NTR. Posting the front page of the first chapter became something people did as a symbol of depression.
How did I feel? I thought it was fine. Chapter 4 was the hottest chapter yet, so as far as I was concerned, it was the best one. I guess that other people hate NTR because they try to visualize themselves as the main character, or because they generally think that a woman who cheats is a terrible person and a whore.
Neither of those is true for me. I don’t give half a damn about the male characters in porn. They exist for the sole purpose of offering pleasure to the girl. I can’t get off on dudes feeling the pleasure – that’s why I don’t like rape or gangbang, especially when there are too many cocks involved (though I make exceptions for hilarious rape and gangbang.) I also would not want my girlfriend to be a virgin.
But I can’t help but wonder what the point of NTR is. I don’t care either way, because I just want to see people having sex, so it’s not like it being NTR does anything extra for me. And almost everyone else hates it. So why bother? Are there people who get off specifically on NTR?
July 15, 2010 at 8:09 pm
The hate, for people who *do* project on to the designated protagonist in these stories, is the attraction – the feeling of jealousy is one of the most potent emotional responses to be found in 18+ material.
I can think of a lot of eromanga where I definitely “enjoyed” the NTR aspects in particular. It’s not a sexual response in the way that, say, seeing breasts is – it’s not a positive attraction, but rather the heady cocktail of seeing sex (good) all mixed up with betrayal (bad).
It’s a common theme for the protagonist to react in the same way the reader is likely to – by masturbating on their own to the visual evidence of the betrayal. The theme here evokes an interesting subversion of what 2DT has said about gender projection – it returns the *man* to the place of being unable to control his sexual urges, even when all of his sexual ability and outlets have been taken away.
Look up an English translation of Victim Girls 6 by Fatalpulse, it’s an especially-potent one that actually has some meta-commentary on why NTR works for the people it works for.
July 15, 2010 at 8:13 pm
or, in brief: “people who fap to NTR” is almost entirely a subset of “people who absolutely fucking hate NTR”.
July 15, 2010 at 10:24 pm
In a sense, it could be said that Aki Sora chapter 5, which also raised a lot of ire from /a/, reverses NTR by doing it to the male protagonist. The storyline, in gist, is that the main cute shota protagonist had a sweet sexual relationship with his sister, but another girl deceived him in attending a group sex event.
Rereading what I have typed, the connection is becoming less and less clear, but perhaps as Jaren L commented, sexual betray is an interesting way to earn hate, and thus fans.
July 16, 2010 at 3:24 pm
Chap 5 of Aki Sora was, upon reading it, one of my favorite chapters of manga ever. I never thought of it as anything like that, though.
I guess I just don’t quite understand because I can’t connect with the male characters. I only connect to the female – what’s she feeling? If she’s fucking another dude, and she’s enjoying it, hey, two thumbs way up.
July 16, 2010 at 3:25 pm
Incidentally, chapter 4 of Cat Head Imako is also probably the hottest chapter of eromanga I’ve ever seen.
Maybe I am secretly a massive NTR fan?
July 16, 2010 at 11:49 pm
While we’re on the subject of reactions, I often find readers’ reactions to NTR more reprehensible than NTR itself. One person on Fakku swore that in a similar situation, he would mutilate the girl as punishment so that she would never be able to have children or enjoy sex again. I can’t be detached and academic about something like that– it’s despicable, and I would never, ever want to meet someone who thinks that way in real life.
But it says a lot, yes?
August 26, 2010 at 3:44 pm
Really, I don’t think that I’d be able to hate the girl either. I mean there are the truly soul crushing moments like the car hood in “True Blue”… But for the main part any animosity I feel is more towards the Offending male… Something like the end of “True Blue Gaiden” (Second installment).
I’ve also seen some works falsely marked as NTR that really don’t qualify in my book. Like if the original guy is cheating or being a real shit to the girl, or is even just ignoring her needs (Working so hard he doesn’t have the energy to keep her happy even- Sorry, I’d find the energy if I loved her!)
But the relationship between the original guy and the girl doesn’t have to be chaste for it to qualify as NTR. In fact there have been some good NTR stories where they had regular sex up until she got raped by the new guy. In these the awakening is different, sometimes it’s the newness, although more often, the new guy is simply so much larger… again playing on the fears of inadequacy that so often are the heart of NTR’s emotional charge.
August 29, 2010 at 12:20 am
Yes, all very true. In the end, masochistic humiliation is the name of the game here.
July 15, 2010 at 3:57 pm
I cannot identify from personal experiences w, but this is quite wicked, and funnily enough I was having a chat about the semi-related topic of females and sexual activity or the lack there of.
I find it highly odd that girls are not sexually activated long before losing their virginity, and it’s apparently a common thing, along with the lack of sex drive. Given my opinion, all the best sex partners have at least fostered their sex drive by themselves, so NTR comes off kinda depressing :/
On another note, god help any girl/character who gets tamed by one man… thats not empowering, it’s very weak, and not the type of female I find attractive.
July 16, 2010 at 2:49 am
“find it highly odd that girls are not sexually activated long before losing their virginity, and it’s apparently a common thing, along with the lack of sex drive”
That’s because it’s not true! So totally and completely not true!
July 16, 2010 at 8:44 pm
I didn’t mean to generalize about all girls.
My issue is the fact that some girls will lose their virginity before ever masturbating, but imo it’s highly dependent on family, culture, and social circles. Now something I’d be interested in knowing is how often girls develop their sex drive without sexual encounters via self or others.
I believe the lack of sex drive among young women is something fairly common, at least in the USA. As for young females, they seem to develop sex drives based on their social behaviors and natural experimentation. I’m not a professional or anything, but the problem I see is in a culture where self-exploration is often shunned and young people might stray away from it at least for some time… (Thank you Mayflower pilgrims -_-) Of course, close social groups may bring light to these matters, or the “in” thing might be having sex… that’s when we’ll have girls with normal sex drives imo (when they learn on their own without fear or ridicule).
What’s not normal imo? A physiologically 16-17-18 year old without a sex drive, but they do exist…. typical solution: they just need to learn how to get off, because they either never explored, refused to, thought it was ‘bad’, or were not around peers who already had the knowledge.
Atop this NTR thing, I think the idea of one man imprinting themselves on a virgin girl because it was their first intense encounter is mostly ridiculous and highly unlikely.
July 16, 2010 at 3:38 pm
I assure you that female sexuality comes about the exact same way that male sexuality does, lol. There is no ‘activation.’ Unless you count curiosity and puberty.
July 16, 2010 at 8:18 pm
That’s precisely my point, but not all girls investigate their body as such… something odd in the ‘Mayflower’ culture.
July 16, 2010 at 11:57 pm
I found your original comment difficult to parse (sorry!), but now I think I understand. And you’re right; even today, women are largely socialized out of sexuality, or they’re taught to channel sexual desire into accessories to make themselves sexually desirable. It’s an unhealthy process. In this respect, Japan is largely the same as the western countries, so it makes sense that something like NTR would appear.
July 15, 2010 at 4:55 pm
I have never been introduced to NTR before so this is quite the revelation for me but personally, porn has always been a private pursuit so I don’t have much to say on the topic generally.
Specifically though, your comment about otaku and virgins is quite the weighty one. There are a lot of theories surrounding it, but my favourite one concerns a “realistic fantasy”. The general idea is that what people look for in characters they invest in is a kind of aloof realism in that they are still tangible and not paradigms of virtue (i.e. they have manufactured flaws) but ultimately a fantasy – they exist in the penumbra of both. By having a character not be a virgin it breaks that fantasy and brings them down into reality, it’s not just sex that does this but any number of vices (smoking, drink, drugs etc.). It can be most canonically seen in the production house rules laid out for idol groups such as AKB48 e.g. no smoking and no dating that any violation of sees the idol “retired” (in the best Blade Runner-esque fashion) from the group.
Still, an interesting look at one of subcultures of erotic manga, even if I did have to swiftly close this while at work – I was duly warned too.
July 17, 2010 at 12:00 am
I’ve been hearing more about this AKB48 group lately, so it’s interesting that you should mention these rules they have to follow. I had no idea.
Sorry to give you trouble at work.
July 15, 2010 at 7:26 pm
I don’t keep any tabs on the pornographic manga scene, so NTR is news to me. While the concept does sound somewhat tragic to me, I don’t get all that emotional. Maybe I externalize it by seeing it as a story created to elicit a specific response (which it is).
Let me say that the drooling, eye-rolling faces of pleasure is not appealing at all (especially the last image in your post). It almost seems like the guy is banging a lifeless body, which is rather more revolting. Then again, if the point is to create revulsion or tragedy, then I can’t think of much worse.
July 15, 2010 at 11:58 pm
Though if you look at it from the perspective as being the man who bangs the women into a “lifeless body”, there are plenty who could probably take pleasure in that. And I guess if I continue on that thought, that might be the closest thing to guro that’s not?
July 16, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Well, I think most people like it because the face is hilarious, and because the concept of (as it is tagged) ‘fucked silly’ is a fun one to consider.
July 17, 2010 at 12:04 am
I understand the ahegao. Especially if you’ve never seen the face of someone climaxing (or you remember that scene from When Harry Met Sally), it’s a visual guarantee that it feels as good for them as it does for you. And then there are the stickier domination/addiction elements.
But that last picture was definitely meant to maximize humiliation, for what that’s worth.
July 15, 2010 at 7:44 pm
I’ve heard of this (though I didn’t know it was an entire sub-genre). Probably for this reason, it never occurred that it would be for people looking for some kind of humiliation. I had taken stories like these to be a reaction to the growing amount of fiction stripping love of its “magic” while defining sex as instinctual and something that can healthily separated from romance.
The way that fictional relationships have been so heavily romanticized would portray sex as an emotional bonding point and a culmination of understanding between two people. The sex itself was a macguffin where the physical act itself was not necessarily important (interestingly enough, the more idealized a relationship is, the less likely you are to see on-screen sex). But the increasing awareness of self and importance placed on the needs of the individual over the needs of a unit or a society over the past few decades push sex as a means of self-gratification as well as way to better understand your own identity rather than that of your partner.
In this way, netorare could be an attempt to reconcile a classic relationship with the purely lustful instincts that have been kept out of media until postmodernism kicked in. This would affect a sexually repressed Japan especially. The males in these stories simply do not want sex to be reduced to a female looking to him for her own pleasure. So they create a third party, another male who the female goes to purely out of physical and not emotional need. This, in turn, makes those “non-traditional” components external to his own relationship with the girl.
Examples of this would be those people that fantasize about getting in on a threesome (or etc.), but would never ask their partner. Not out of fear of damaging their relationship, but because they simply can’t visualize their partner like that. Whatever they are looking for in these fantasies is not what they desire from “relationship sex.”
The American television series, “Six Feet Under” depicts a pretty harsh reality for romance and postmodernism. While it isn’t exactly the same, a lot of the scenarios in that show bring this topic to mind.
July 17, 2010 at 12:15 am
I definitely agree about our culture programming us into seeing sex as the culmination and ultimate expression of romance. But thinking of otaku and the stereotypical otaku mindset, I see netorare in a different way as a result: You have the classic, desirable “pure” relationship, which is abruptly intruded upon by animal sexual desire. Rather than trying to reconcile, the genre treats physicality (or maybe just female physicality) as alien.
July 15, 2010 at 10:55 pm
Again what strikes me as fascinating is the fact that we even care, given the status of the characters as completely fictional – and if anything erotic manga likely has even less “normal” pages to even establish a sort of character relationship at the beginning (I imagine the author wants to save the bulk of the pages for the *ahem*, “juicier” content). In terms of sheer time investment one would imagine we couldn’t be very attached at all, yet your description of the genre sounds like it could elicit a very extreme reaction.
July 16, 2010 at 3:44 pm
In most cases, I think, NTR is part of an ongoing series. For instance, Cat Head Imako had an incredibly cute and heartwarming first chapter that was great for getting readers attached to the characters. It’s only in subsequent chapters that things go downhill until, in chapter 4, Imako bangs another dude.
July 17, 2010 at 12:09 am
I find that the split between NTR one-shots and NTR series is pretty even. Series, as Digitalboy says, have time to ruin the relationship and maximize the eroticized humiliation.
One-shots I think work because they operate with some very easily absorbed tropes. Verbal cues like “she was always against doing sexual things before” or “I’m sorry, I love you but this cock is unforgettable” allow our brains to do the torture for us.
July 15, 2010 at 11:05 pm
So basically NTR is a highly sexualized, Japanese, modern day equivalent of late 19th Century vampire stories?
July 17, 2010 at 12:10 am
Actually… yeah. Yes.
July 16, 2010 at 12:09 am
I feel like this has already been said, but the interesting thing about some of the NTR comics is that the female will still be in love with the male character. Just not physically. And that might be a way to show the target audience how a real relationship might not necessarily need a physical aspect to it. Which, while for the most part, not true, can also appeal to people who tend to fancy 2D-complexes and the like. If that makes any sense.
July 16, 2010 at 6:53 am
>>And that might be a way to show the target audience how a real relationship might not necessarily need a physical aspect to it.
cept the characters usually become slaves to their lust and leave their husbands and boyfriends. The message I get from this is that the relationship effectively ends when you no longer possess a woman’s physical loyalty, regardless of how they still feel for you. This seems like the more appropriate interpretation given Japan’s male chauvinism.
July 17, 2010 at 12:26 am
You said it better than I could.
Thanks.
July 16, 2010 at 3:28 pm
I actually find that an interesting point, as someone who doesn’t really think love should bind sexual desire.
July 16, 2010 at 2:44 am
Obviously, you can guess my opinion on this subject.
This is disgusting and degrading to women.
I hate that it exists because it assumes that women’s sexual pleasure is inextricable tied to a penis, and that is so ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. The vast majority of women CANNOT orgasm through penetration alone.
The idea that a woman is sexually “activated” when she is penetrated for the first time is part of a culture’s (most cultures, including American) obsession with controlling and taming a woman’s sexuality. By assuming that a woman has no control over how her body reacts or feels until it has been penetrated by a man, all of the agency is lifted from her and given to him. It’s a power fantasy, nothing more.
It’s also literally changing the woman’s body, and she has no control over it. Of course it’s ridiculous to think that a woman’s body changes magically when she’s had sex with the studly porn guy. But the ramifications of it are mind-blowing! She has absolutely no control over her body and it changes against her will! Sound eerily close to rape anyone?
The virgin/whore dichotomy is so pervasive, it’s disgusting.
The cult of virginity thing also bothers me because it misunderstands a very vital thing about female sexuality – many women’s first time is incredibly painful. Not always, of course. Sex can be terribly painful for a woman at any time, but especially a virgin. If you’re wanting to cause a woman pain and get off on it? That’s what these fantasies are.
July 16, 2010 at 7:10 am
>>She has absolutely no control over her body and it changes against her will! Sound eerily close to rape anyone?
Sounds like otaku getting off on a twisted rendition of mono no aware.
July 16, 2010 at 3:36 pm
Yeah. I mean, this is manga. I have never, ever seen a realistic depiction of sex in manga. Most of the time, when the girl loses her virginity, she either straight-up enjoys it, or it hurts for a little bit, and then she starts liking it. Even I facepalm when I see it, but it’s otaku trying to have their cake and eat it, too. They want the enjoyable sex, but they also want the virginity. I say, choose one.
But it IS manga. Even leaving aside that conundrum, it’s still hardly ever realistic. And manga is hardly fair to anyone. Manga assumes that anyone besides a relatable protagonist is out to rape each and every girl of any age that he can find, while a protagonist is playing the white night just to get pussy. Girls are all either pure maidens or cockjuggling thundercunts, and the same basically goes for gay guys.
I don’t think anyone’s safe. But it would be a very broad and incorrect generalization to say that there aren’t any manga that do it right. I actually read this one ToumaXMisaka Index doujin wherein it was their first time and Touma actually had to take it slow and carefully the whole time, because it was painful for Misaka the whole time. I was pretty proud of that doujin.
All in all, though, I’m not complaining. Fantasies are fantasies, drawings are drawings. As an avid fan of guro, lolicon, monstergirls, and anything else you can possibly name, I know that my love of porn has nothing whatsoever to do with how I feel about women.
July 17, 2010 at 12:34 am
Oh, I love this trope. It’s especially good when the girl starts to enjoy it, and that somehow gives the guy free license to pound like there’s no tomorrow, usually with an exclamation like “I’m sorry, I just can’t control myself!”
The power of a fantasy.
July 17, 2010 at 12:30 am
Not to be too glib about it, but is that really in dispute?
Pornography in general is pretty awful and objectifying, when it comes down to brass tacks. But I chose to talk about NTR because it says a lot about the culture that produces and consumes it.
With two perfectly good comments already here, I feel I’d just be repeating points now. But thanks for reading!
August 26, 2010 at 4:01 pm
Yet, you have to look at the fact that NTR works are just as popular with women as men, but for entirely different reasons. There are the loyal women out there who get off on NTR because, yes, they love their man, but maybe they’ve hit a rocky spot, or even when everything is great, but predictable… In a rut. They love their man and are loyal to them, would never leave them, but the fantasy of NTR for them is that they are not only desirable to other men, but desirable enough to be worth stealing… A man comes, takes the situation out of her control and through skill and/or size… Fulfills her to an extent that she’s never dreamed of… While the rape part of it isn’t what she wants, it’s a means to the end of the fantasy.
No, a big member can’t make them leave their man, but sometimes we all need a little fantasy, and there are bigger hole plots in movies and series on TV…
August 29, 2010 at 12:18 am
Hmmm. Food for thought. Thanks!
July 16, 2010 at 7:18 am
So lyk, it takes a blog entry for you to admit to me that you still watch porn, eh? Moreso than netorare, the whole ‘consumption and getting eaten alive or eating someone’ bit interests me a lot more; it’s freaking unnatural.
But then I suppose you can’t go into the whole contemporary Japanese culture bit with it like you can with netorare. Then again, there must be some reason all the ‘consumption porn’ is done in an anime-esque style.
July 17, 2010 at 3:08 am
Consumption will come up when I talk about High School of the Dead, which I hope you’re watching. It’s very much Your Thing.
Re: Porn… Best not to hide these things more than we have to, I feel lately.
July 16, 2010 at 8:37 am
Hadn’t heard of NTR before this, so that was fairly interesting for me.
It’s certainly an interesting genre, though I see it as no more as the love triangle taken one step further. In the end, one person is inevitably shafted, and I think an integral part of NTR as evidenced in the panels you presented is the reaction of the person the female betrayed. It’s undoubtedly the worst form of betrayal possible, far exceeding anything that can be done without any sort of sexual relations involved.
Yet the other side to the NTR genre definitely comes from the fact that the blame ultimately rests on the female. It’s her carnal desires that ultimately drive the story and genre. While the genre is driven by the hate that the reader/viewer feels for the female. While degrading to females, the genre certainly isn’t friendly to this image of the woman as a whore. By appealing to the audience to sympathize with the poor male character, this portrait of the female becomes reviled by the audience.
In short, I don’t think the power of the genre draws its power from the transformation of the virtuous female into a slut. But having limited exposure to NTR material, I can’t be certain about that conclusion. I think if you read NTR purely for the ahegao and scenes of the female having a great time, then you’re missing half of the point.
July 16, 2010 at 3:46 pm
Well, I’m enjoying it for those two things, and I’ll agree that from the perspective of the author’s intent, I’m probably missing half the point. Though it’s a half the point that I feel very good about missing lol.
July 17, 2010 at 11:42 pm
Opening eyes! Don’t thank me, it’s what I do.
I think NTR draws power from a whole lot of things: Distrust of women, masochistic feelings of inadequacy– Even, if you think about it, the voyeurism inherent to pornography. But everybody has their reasons.
May 14, 2011 at 1:05 am
2DT,
Thanks for your great post. For more insight into the mental aspects of this from a male view research “cuckold angst”.
July 16, 2010 at 6:10 pm
Great post. It’s certainly a very touchy genre, and a very uncomfortable thing (at least for me) to read. But that’s a good thing.
Well, I never liked the idea of “breaking” a woman, but it certainly has its fan base. As does humiliation and NTR.
July 17, 2010 at 11:45 pm
I still wonder if something like this is worth learning about. If I had a choice between “An Introduction to Quantum Physics” and “The Psychology of NTR,” I want to think that they have an equal opportunity to enrich my understanding of the world. But I don’t really know.
Well, thanks for reading. I appreciate it.
July 18, 2010 at 4:43 am
Well, you’re certainly right about the first part: most, if not all, men watch pornography. I’m not sure about the statistics, but every guy I’ve talked to has beat the meat to it.
As for NTR: well, I’m not gonna lie when I say that it’s totally fucked up. (Pardon my french.) Of course, if people like that, then they can like it–but as for me, I’m less-than-fond of it, to put it nicely.
That being said, the otaku may find comfort in NTR, even if it is subconsciously. Maybe it really isn’t their fault; maybe it’s really women who cannot control their innately prurient desires. Either way, I can’t help but think that the otaku shares a portion of the blame–a big one at that. Taking comfort in blaming the opposite sex is taking the easy way out and, more importantly, won’t solve anything.
As for me: I have no idea where I stand. I’m single (though nothing at my age is quite serious in a relationship), and I am surrounded by people who are constantly shifting in their relationship status. However, I’m not in dire need of such sexual desires–not yet, perhaps–so it doesn’t concern me. Interesting entry nevertheless.
July 18, 2010 at 12:57 pm
Well, I’ve met a few men who initially used porn, but now insist on using their imaginations as a matter of pride. Very interesting people, those ones.
In the event that you enter a serious relationship, I’m 99% sure you won’t ever have to deal with something like this. So rest easy.
July 18, 2010 at 8:50 pm
> most, if not all, men watch pornography. I’m not
> sure about the statistics, but every guy I’ve
> talked to has beat the meat to it.
Actually, I know several guys who (or so they say) don’t watch pornography and don’t fap on a regular basis. Well, asexuals do exist, but they are not the only ones. Even regarding myself, I have been quite late in my awakening to this kind of contents. I think it was only at the age of 16 that I began consuming explicit material.
July 19, 2010 at 4:16 pm
Any way you can expand on why you think NTR is fucked up, Hellomotto?
July 18, 2010 at 7:01 am
Interesting topic…wondering if any of your middle school students/past students read this blog?
July 18, 2010 at 12:55 pm
As far as they’re concerned, I’m keeping my secret blogging life to the grave.
July 21, 2010 at 4:41 am
While we’re on this topic, have you considered the possibility of genetic engineering or re-engineering to change people’s sexual habits and desires? Our bodies and our desires are based on biology, and so by changing the biology….
July 21, 2010 at 8:27 am
I understand that it’s theoretically possible, but with our level of science, the idea is laughably far away. Desire is so much more complex than just a few sequences of DNA.
August 3, 2010 at 1:10 am
For science, I’d agree. But for science fiction….
Imagination can take us to many different places.
July 26, 2010 at 6:13 am
watch Hen zemi, there’s an NTR fetish character
July 28, 2010 at 10:59 am
I just did! Very very funny– and relevant!
Thanks for the heads up.
August 15, 2010 at 9:01 am
Weeks after the fact- I know, but this article poked at something in my mind.
Before reading this, I had never heard of NTR. But quite recently I was exposed to it for the first time (or at least it was the first time I “appreciated” NTR enough to remember it). It was the very doujin that you use as your first visual example in your article (The BakaTest one about Shouko and Yuuji).
Now keep in mind that I’ve read or skimmed quite a lot of doujinshi in my life, and that I have been quite disgusted and turned off by… most of them. However, if I don’t like an image, I simply stop looking at it and I can just forget about it. But that particular doujin was quite a different story for me. The art in it I found to be fantastic, but as the story began playing out unexpectedly in NTR fashion I found it more and more repulsive. Yet at the same time it was incredibly erotic and emotionally so brutal that, as much as I hated it, I could not stop reading. Afterward, it haunted my conscious mind for days. I couldn’t stop thinking of it, and it hurt. The fuck!? I was traumatized by that shit! No doujin had ever affected me like that before. Ever.
August 15, 2010 at 4:13 pm
Just to prove to you that I do, in fact, reply to comments no matter when they appear…
NTR is never really nice, but for the pictures I chose some especially brutal examples. I think it captures the imagination for readers like us because (not to paint with too broad a brush or anything, but) we are so intimately familiar with romantic failure and watching the people we’re attracted to being swept away by other people.
For what it’s worth, I’m glad it got a reaction out of you beyond simple porn. I just hope I haven’t opened dangerous new frontiers.
September 12, 2010 at 11:24 am
…
Dude, where’s the second image from?
September 12, 2010 at 11:34 am
Ask and ye shall receive.
It’s from “Confession from Beyond the Mirror” by Nagare Ippon.
September 12, 2010 at 6:48 pm
Hi, i was wondering if you can give me a list of great NTR manga that you know. (Pretty Please ^_^)
September 12, 2010 at 8:44 pm
Well, frankly I’m not that familiar with it. There’s the one I mentioned above, and then the other one that I used in this entry, which is from Baka to Test to Shoukanjuu. But if you run a Google search for “NTR” or “netorare,” you’ll find a few forums that talk about it in great detail. The doujinshi aggregator Fakku’s also a great source.
Hope that helps.
April 23, 2011 at 5:17 am
We read at fakku!!!
September 20, 2010 at 2:09 pm
Can you read Japanese? If you can, I think you will find this short manga very interesting, if you have not seen them already.
http://g.e-hentai.org/g/143939/9355ecb91c/
“咲子さんノ男性事情”
It brings out, as the story progresses, both the ‘angst’ of the male protagonist and the reader so well. I think it is a very noble example of NTR genre.
September 20, 2010 at 2:11 pm
And, I am sorry for such a short comment. I feel that all that can be said has been already discussed, and thus was unable to write anything more productive.
September 21, 2010 at 11:02 am
Quite all right! My Japanese reading skill is very, very low, but I think I can get the gist of this one. And it’s very good, as you say! Thanks.
December 10, 2010 at 5:37 pm
well, there’s a saying “if u can’t be a good example, then be a horrible warning”, i think that sums NTR for me, if any other opinions about NTR, i’m open for their opinion
December 10, 2010 at 6:28 pm
u know this genre personifies, bon jovi’s song, YOU GIVE LOVE A BAD NAME
April 23, 2011 at 5:14 am
well said for a one-sentence statement!!!
January 28, 2011 at 11:23 am
[...] slave for life! You can see why netorare stories use creampies so extensively, which brings all the negative associations of ownership and female weakness to the table as well. This one always makes me laugh. Source: "Ikenai Ohime-sama" by [...]
February 5, 2011 at 12:02 pm
[...] 2DT talks about NTR and how sex is portrayed as the ‘answer’. [...]
February 16, 2011 at 3:11 pm
Me personally i like ntr because its different and that feeling I get in my gut when watching or reading Ntr mangas or anime. Its based on your own taste. A lot of people like the happy sex ones. And thats face it theres a lot more of those than ntr mangas.
April 23, 2011 at 5:11 am
I honestly love reading doushinjis and eromangas may it be harem, solo, yuri, or whatever it is.. then this genre came.. and NTR usually comes in handy with S&Ms.. this is where I started hating on reading eromangas.. I’m actually a fan of “love” sex and hated much of gangbangs for it felt like girls seemed to stupid(though I still read it even if I get too angry about it).. and I personally liked this article having explained the mix of emotions and jealousy being the prominent one.. Which is why I hate these cheating, cuckolding, stupifying, contents and making me think the girls in these plots always give in to such absurd pleasure.. I always get to hate this sort of genre(anti-NTR).. but I really don’t know why I kept reading it.. To tell you it’s quite disappointing feeling so horny in the start(where the lovers have sex) and your hormones going downhill(those fuckers fucking your fucking stupid girlfriend).. God I hate it but why do I still research and read about it..
May 14, 2011 at 1:20 am
Yes, that is one big part of it, as you say, ” I hate this sort of genre… but I kept reading it.” There is a very strong love/hate aspect to this. One hates the actions, but at the same time, finds them most stimulating. That is the draw. In real life, there is also a danger element to it.
May 14, 2011 at 1:25 am
Thanks for a most interesting topic…
September 19, 2011 at 6:17 am
lol..everbody fucking love ntr..the girl keep banging by 2-10 men and the hero been jerking off like idiot…
September 25, 2011 at 6:28 am
hello there,
where is the first image from?
Thanks in advance
October 9, 2011 at 2:07 am
I think it’s the emotional masochism that makes NTR appealing to me. It has nothing to do with shaming women or depicting them as brainless whores (although its necessary that a woman might prioritize sexual compatibility over all else, to the point of unfaithfulness). It has everything to do with the sheer bitterness and (self)loathing that emerges from betrayal, “defilement” of the love of your life, the acknowledgement that another man is objectively better than you and that you can do nothing about it, and the utter finality of all that. The simultaneous assault of these feelings shocks the mind senseless, and I indulge in that sensation. It’s emotional masochism.